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sabrinamariI had a long talk with my friend eoma_p last night. I've been thinking alot about parenting, identity and schooling.
School is really important, and tuition was the one gift that really paid off for the happiest, most anxiety-free folks in the "Millionaire Next Door". I don't question that. I also don't think we need to shove Trent out the door at 18. But instead of aiming so high in terms of school, I think we should aim more modestly (this is a big departure in my thinking...I used to believe that you went to the best school you could get into!). I no longer believe success is correlated with a school's reputation, beyond a basic level.
I also think that Trent will benefit more from working for his degree, at least a small amount, than he would from having it just handed to him. Sigh. I still want to just hand it over...but...it's just not the best plan for him.
Finally, I think we will follow Michael's parent's lead: for the first few years of school, if Trent is attending college, working hard and doing well---and contributing some to his tuition---he can live at home. But as he gets older, and earlier if he decides to quit or slack off, he must move out and begin shaping his world and his life on his own, with minimal economic outpatient care.
This means that we must teach Trent to do the following things by the time he is 18, and probably by the time he is 16. Ideally, there will need to be an apprenticeship period before he starts college in which he takes over part of or even the whole household budget, under our supervision, and runs the household himself, allocating savings, expenditure and bill paying dollars and doing the shopping.
I may try to build in such a trial period the summer before he starts school.
This latter piece is what my parents never gave my brother and me. They taught us to do literature searches, use a library and write well by the time we were about eleven, but we were never allowed to develop practical life skills by doing them ourselves. I never learned to drive in high school, nor was I allowed to handle money, much less create and manage a budget. I had no practice and no skill base to sustain me when I left home. Is it such a surprise, then, that I became a classic super-consumer, wasting money, saving nothing and building an identity with expensive, cool "stuff" I didn't need?
Between about 9-16, Trent will need to learn how to:
* Become a disciplined worker
* Create and manage a household budget
* Develop a consistent strategy for generating both short terms savings (an emergency fund), and long term savings (investments)
* Understand the different kinds of accounts and the basics of portfolio management
* Know how to pay bills on time, consistently
* Shop for groceries wisely and cook healthy food for himself, on a budget
* Live within his means
Instead of pushing Trent to go to a "great" school, and automatically think about going to grad school---like my parents did with me---I need to take a different approach. He's already scarily smart, and his test scores and grades are in the 99th percentile.
But what I'm coming to understand, slowly, is this: pushing him to further capitalize on these pre-existing strengths is probably not what will ultimately bring him balance, wisdom, peace and happiness.
Pushing him to develop a strong "real world" work ethic and creating opportunities to help him build evidence that he can take care of himself will probably pay off more in the long run. He needs help learning to solve problems independently. THAT is what will probably help him MORE than his intelligence
I hate to say it, because huge pieces of my identity have been built around school, advanced degrees and learning, but...discipline, responsibility, autonomy and practical skills probably outweigh intellectual capacity and advanced schooling by a good bit in producing a happy, well-adjusted adult.
Maybe I can leverage my academic training by doing a literature search on teaching kids practical skills, and then using this to create a series of age-appropriate curricula....hmmmm....
OK, back to work for now.
School is really important, and tuition was the one gift that really paid off for the happiest, most anxiety-free folks in the "Millionaire Next Door". I don't question that. I also don't think we need to shove Trent out the door at 18. But instead of aiming so high in terms of school, I think we should aim more modestly (this is a big departure in my thinking...I used to believe that you went to the best school you could get into!). I no longer believe success is correlated with a school's reputation, beyond a basic level.
I also think that Trent will benefit more from working for his degree, at least a small amount, than he would from having it just handed to him. Sigh. I still want to just hand it over...but...it's just not the best plan for him.
Finally, I think we will follow Michael's parent's lead: for the first few years of school, if Trent is attending college, working hard and doing well---and contributing some to his tuition---he can live at home. But as he gets older, and earlier if he decides to quit or slack off, he must move out and begin shaping his world and his life on his own, with minimal economic outpatient care.
This means that we must teach Trent to do the following things by the time he is 18, and probably by the time he is 16. Ideally, there will need to be an apprenticeship period before he starts college in which he takes over part of or even the whole household budget, under our supervision, and runs the household himself, allocating savings, expenditure and bill paying dollars and doing the shopping.
I may try to build in such a trial period the summer before he starts school.
This latter piece is what my parents never gave my brother and me. They taught us to do literature searches, use a library and write well by the time we were about eleven, but we were never allowed to develop practical life skills by doing them ourselves. I never learned to drive in high school, nor was I allowed to handle money, much less create and manage a budget. I had no practice and no skill base to sustain me when I left home. Is it such a surprise, then, that I became a classic super-consumer, wasting money, saving nothing and building an identity with expensive, cool "stuff" I didn't need?
Between about 9-16, Trent will need to learn how to:
* Become a disciplined worker
* Create and manage a household budget
* Develop a consistent strategy for generating both short terms savings (an emergency fund), and long term savings (investments)
* Understand the different kinds of accounts and the basics of portfolio management
* Know how to pay bills on time, consistently
* Shop for groceries wisely and cook healthy food for himself, on a budget
* Live within his means
Instead of pushing Trent to go to a "great" school, and automatically think about going to grad school---like my parents did with me---I need to take a different approach. He's already scarily smart, and his test scores and grades are in the 99th percentile.
But what I'm coming to understand, slowly, is this: pushing him to further capitalize on these pre-existing strengths is probably not what will ultimately bring him balance, wisdom, peace and happiness.
Pushing him to develop a strong "real world" work ethic and creating opportunities to help him build evidence that he can take care of himself will probably pay off more in the long run. He needs help learning to solve problems independently. THAT is what will probably help him MORE than his intelligence
I hate to say it, because huge pieces of my identity have been built around school, advanced degrees and learning, but...discipline, responsibility, autonomy and practical skills probably outweigh intellectual capacity and advanced schooling by a good bit in producing a happy, well-adjusted adult.
Maybe I can leverage my academic training by doing a literature search on teaching kids practical skills, and then using this to create a series of age-appropriate curricula....hmmmm....
OK, back to work for now.
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no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 02:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 02:03 pm (UTC)It is really easy to lose your sanity and happiness in pursuit of an expensive degree.
Degrees are useful, but I now believe that this is true only if they are absolutely necessary in order for you to do what you love and want to do!
And in that case, I think the best move is to shop around for a school that offers a good balance of benefit and value.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 02:59 pm (UTC)I remember when I started school, I couldn't believe that some of the students in the dorm couldn't even work a laundry machine, let alone cook their own food! Parent who keep their children dependent in these ways are doing them no favour.
I look forward to reading how this progresses for you, Sabrina and Trent. He's one lucky guy!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 03:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 02:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 05:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 01:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 05:48 pm (UTC)I was taught how to keep track of bills and balance a checkbook-- but not household budgeting. I had the basics down, and could apply them to a household scenario. Now that I'm buying a house, those sound financial lessons have resulted in my mortgage lender's offer letter including the words "outstanding credit," which he says he doesn't get use very often at all, for which I called Mom & Dad and thanked them.
I've been disappointed, as an adult, that the mandatory "Life Skills" classes taught in public schools in my hometown (or elsewhere) didn't cover the pragmatic basics of "how to live on your own."
Trent will be so well-rounded-- and well-grounded-- by the time he's ready for college!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 02:04 pm (UTC)What a great legacy you got from your parents. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 08:08 pm (UTC)Dad and I had more than one go-'round about spending things like Savings Bonds at various times, what they were being spent on, and how "you can only spend your money once." There was a balance, too, because I was learning to do things (if only to prove my point, such as when I bought my first Prius) like cost-benefit analysis-- which, conceptually, was important, it leads to broad skill development like critical thinking, organization, and record-keeping.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 07:07 pm (UTC)If he knows at 18 he wants a job that doesn't require a PhD, that's great, but the school you go to does close doors.
I agree teaching him to invest and work and about money is important.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 08:10 pm (UTC)Show him how to pay bills online
Date: 2009-07-17 07:11 pm (UTC)For example, say you spend $40 a month on his phone, $80 on lunch, and $40 on his going to the movies with friends and stuff (I'm estimating, I don't have a kid so have no idea how much school cafeterias are selling for). He can set up his account to automatically pay his bills. If he goes over his minutes, the extra money comes out of his "fun" budget.
Or whatever you spend money on with him.
Re: Show him how to pay bills online
Date: 2009-07-17 08:08 pm (UTC)Handing a degree??
Date: 2009-07-17 09:14 pm (UTC)The tuition was paid. My parents informed me that, in fact, they forbid my working for spending money and would much rather provide for my needs. "School is your job! Doing the absolute best you can now to provide a solid foundation for good earning potential later is a full time affair." were their exact words.
Now, of course, you know well the perfectionist stock from which I come. I will quote Gene Kranz's dictum for that time in my life, "Failure is NOT an option."
So, I don't know whether distracting an undergrad from school with other responsibilities is wise if there is a choice. I don't know if what my parents did was wise either. The perfectionism sure bred true! I am very grateful for my education being paid for. It allowed me to begin my professional life with very little debt, instead of 1/2 million in the hole like many of my friends and colleagues. It also enabled me to chose my school based on fit rather than price tag.
Re: Handing a degree??
Date: 2009-07-18 02:06 pm (UTC)Thank you for sharing your insights and your story!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-17 09:57 pm (UTC)Hugs!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 01:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-19 11:32 am (UTC)I did not insist that they go to college, but I did insist that they finish high school. SO many kids drop out today becaseu things get "hard", and it's so much easier to work at the typical teenaged jobs out there---fast food, grocery store clerk, cahiers, sub shop delivery drivers---than it os to put the mind to work in school. My plan for the younger two was to help them through community college and have them decide what they wanted to study at a 4 year institution. It's a lot cheaper to experiment at $68 per credit than at $300 per credit, and the classes would transfer to the four-year institution. I told all of them that if they wanted to go out of state, or to an Ivy-League college, they'd need to have stellar grades and apply for scholarships----I could not, as a single parent, afford to send them to places like that.
My older son went to college, obtained his Masters' and is now working for the Federal Government. My older daughter didn't go to college, is now the Director of Sales for a hotel chain, and is making more money than my Master's-degreed son. WHo kjnew?
College is important to me, but it's not so important to everyone. My younger son JAson is not willing to go to college---it was an experiment that failed---and he is perfectly happy working in an apprenticehip program for millwrights. He prefers to work with his hands, and enjoys being in the physical world. He doesn't realize it, but he is attending college classes all the timem, as he develops his knowledge of safety procedures, hazmat procedures, welding, and all the rest that he has to have in order to reach Journeyman level, and even more after tht to become a Master. His college looks different, that's all. :)
WHen my kids were growing uop, I taught them about money, about value, about how to make things work and last. I made sue that they knew just what it took to manage a household, how to write checks and balance a checkbook, what lending money meant. Their experiences were real-life, real-time, and they worked with me to establish norms. There are some things that
no subject
Date: 2009-07-19 11:46 am (UTC)There are some things that I took care of because I felt it was my responsibility---and my pleasure---to do. School-related expenses were some fo those things---pictures and graduation expenses, and that sort of thing---but if Jason wanted a new pair of shoes that cost $100, he had to buy them from his funds. I efused to go overboard liek that. He soon learned hat if he wanted something, he had to budget his money, and he had to put things off. He learned that he could not come to Mom for moeny if he had spent all on those shoes, or on something else totally frivolous. (Jason REALLY loved his shoes!)
I feel that kids need some of both perspectives---gibve them what they need, get them in the best schools you can afford---if that's what THEY want---and let them work toward their own goals. REemember that Trent, or anyt child, will have tomakemistakes, will haveto learn some things the hard way---and there is very little you can do but stand back and watch while he does it. You can be support, you can be the voice of reason, but ultimately, it's his decisions that will govern his behaviors---and isn't that how you want him to grow up? YOu can give him a solid foundation, but then you have to let him go to make his own way in the world. Some of what you teach him will stick. Some will not. That's just how life is, and it's a good thing.
My advice? Work with him slowly, see what he likes to do and build on those affinities. Everyday things can be lessons. Don't push stuff on him that he's not ready for---he'll wind up hating that he has to be conscious of financial matters, or worse, resenting your for having only one theme in his life. Kids are funny creatures---make it a game, teach by example, and it will go much better for you in the long run. Explain EVERYTHING so that he can comprehend and grasp the basics, and allow him the time and space to integrate those things into his own persona.
You know how to do this---having children is like having someone in Neophyte for a very, very, VERY long time. It's a source of great joy, great frustration, and great discovery, for both parent and child. You'll have to teach some basic skills, and be patient while they sink in and grow inside of him. Don't over-think, don't over-plan, be flexible, be responsive, and above all, be loving.
I'll bet you didn't even realize you were an expert! :)
Hugs. You can always call me if you need "kid advice:. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-07-22 11:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-22 11:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 03:22 am (UTC)I like your approach to these life lessons and hope you don't feel it is presmptious if I suggest a couple more.
-laundry, ironing, sewing on/replacing buttons
(this saves $$ in not-paying to have someone else to this work, and he may someday wear a suit with shirts that require ironing);p
-house cleaning including cleaning a bathroom(he may have a roommate someday, and that roommate will likely expect him to share equally in maintaining the house.) Including that sheets need to be changed and washed regularly.(eewww... this comes from direct observation of a person who wasn't aware of this *shudder*)
-basic car maintenance and care (oil changes etc.)and use of public transportation.
my 2 cents ;p
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 01:49 pm (UTC)Any suggestions you can hand my way will make it into my "Life Curriculum" file. If you think of any more, please list them!
Thank you.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 11:21 am (UTC)My maura is a typical kid...she goes from wanting to be a ballarina to now wanting to be a teacher (like me...oi).
But randa...well...she had her I want to be a fireman phase...but since the age of 4 has wanted to be a soldier. She is 11 and a half and still wants this. She came to me last year aand said "welll they pay for college yo know" and she talked of rotc and other things. At first she wanted to be in the motor pool like her pop pop. But we've managed to talk about saleable skills an she's looked at army medic and MP...she's pretty set on MP now. She doesn't wwant to be reserve she wants to be carreer. All this I talked about with the 11 year old...I had NO idea when I was 11 what I wanted!
So...I guess what I am saying is...keep doing what you are doing, I llove the money skills idea and keep an open mind that trent may or may not know early on what he wants his path to be! Good luck!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 01:56 pm (UTC)It did not help me!
It's also useful to hear about the differences between your children. I need to be flexible in my approach, and customize my approach for each child/niece that I hope to help.
Maybe I need a set of domains to focus on, and a set of guidelines to work by, like:
Praise strengths and craft the options I offer each child based on this idea: present opportunities to work on weaknesses and turn them into strengths.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-18 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-22 11:24 am (UTC)I am sure I will have to do this with Trent in some way, too.
{{{hugs}}}
no subject
Date: 2009-07-19 07:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-22 11:22 am (UTC)You should know about this blog...
Date: 2009-07-20 06:18 am (UTC)http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/giving-kids-control-of-money-so-they-dont-always-need-yours/
Re: You should know about this blog...
Date: 2009-07-22 11:22 am (UTC)