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I'm reading a book that's both a very quick read and very useful. The author comes from an extremely Christian paradigm and I know this would be a challenge for some folks. The title and approach are kind of cheesy, too. For me, these things aren't problems. I don't care who or what you worship or what your preferred spiritual paradigm is if you have something of utility to say, and I like dorks. I'll steal from anyone who has a good cookie.

Here's one excerpt of real interest:


"The business deal that I was working on had taken substantial time and effort...and the man I was meeting with was the last pivotal person to make it all work. I had been getting to know him better, and at this point I had found him interesting, creative and smart....That is when he said, 'I am looking forward to working with you. You seem like a trustworthy person who does good work. I am like that myself. You can depend on me; I will do my part. You do your part and I will do mine. Do me right, and I will do you right. But, don't screw with me, or you won't like it. Mess with me, and I will mess with you right back. Treat me well and we will be fine.'

At that moment, I knew our deal was off. There was no way I was going forward with this man. Why? He just wanted to play fair. As long as I treated him well, he would treat me well. Things would be fine. But if I gave him less than he desired, then he was going to do the same back at me. Good for good, bad for bad. That is only fair.

And it will destroy every relationship in life.

So I told the man that our deal would not work for me, and I would not be able to move forward.

Later when I was explaining my decision to some other people, I said that that kind of relationship will not work. I do not like to be in partnerships where the attitude is to give each other just what we deserve. That is certainly fair, but if I enter a relationship with you, I want better than fair from you. I do not want to fail and have you get back at me in some way to even up the score.

'I understand that principle to be fair,' I explained, 'but I want more than that. If I make a mistake, I want you to help me, not get back at me. If I fail, that is exactly when I need you to do better, not worse. If I do something wrong, I need for you to rise above it and show me, and be a force to get us on the right track, not to cause the situation to deteriorate into getting even.'

I would want to do the same, I continued. If a person with whom I had a relationship made an error or did something detrimental to the relationship I would want to help him see it or fix it, and do better. I would want to be a force to help raise them up, not drag them down. That is the only kind of partnership I want to be in."

"9 Things You Simply Must Do to Succeed in Love and Life: A Psychologist Probes the Mysteries of Why Some Lives Really Work and Others Don't," Henry Cloud, pp. 168-169.

******

Here, the author is voicing something I've felt myself but haven't really articulated. Just playing fair isn't especially helpful or useful, and I don't want to be in relationships where that is the unspoken rule.

I want better than fair, and I want to give back better than fair.

Once, years ago, I was talking to a dear friend who said, "I think that mostly, people get what they deserve." I thought about that for many years, and finally came to the conclusion that people actually get what they're willing to settle for. I've seen that again and again recently, too. Whatever you're willing to settle for is what you actually get.

Unless you really believe you are worth better, you won't get it, because you won't insist on it. And in situations of that kind, it's hard to give back the best that's in you.

So it only makes sense to settle only for the best, and to offer only the best in return.

And we as humans can do much, much better than just play fair. We can play to the best possible good of the people we are involved with on every level.

If someone's just not ready for that, it's OK. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. It just means that it's a good idea not to settle, and to move on to something else, since the two of you are not playing by the same rules and it will be hard to establish a mutually respectful relationship in which you both play better than fair.

Date: 2012-04-02 06:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windofvenus.livejournal.com
Yes! I agree!
Thanks for sharing!

Date: 2012-04-02 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
You're welcome. There are a lot of wise people in the world.

I would like to meet more of them.

Date: 2012-04-02 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spiffnolee.livejournal.com
Yes, very much what you've said.
Somehow reminds my of Steven Covey's The Eighth Habit

Date: 2012-04-02 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
Hmmm, I don't know that book.

Date: 2012-04-02 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spiffnolee.livejournal.com
You're kidding!??

You know Steven R. Covey, creator of the Franklin Covey system and author of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People? Well, The Eighth Habit is his sequel, subtitled "Moving from Being Effective to Being Great."

The Eighth Habit that great people do is:
Find your voice and inspire others to find theirs.

Doesn't that sound like something I would be surprised you haven't read?

Date: 2012-04-02 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
I didn't know about it, but I do now.
Edited Date: 2012-04-02 09:58 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-04-02 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] showingup.livejournal.com
Yes!

Also, what a really narrow idea of fairness some people have. I was brought up to believe that fairness includes compassion, trying to see the other's perspective. My Mum has a tendency to quote the Bible on adherence to the letter of a law or contract while abandoning the intention behind it: "For the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." Which, I imagine, is this writer's perspective.

It really does seems to boil down to whether you're allowing yourself to be controlled by what others do or motivated by your own conscience. Tit for tat's a position of weakness, whereas mercy's a quality of strength.

Trust you to find and disseminate the good stuff :D

Date: 2012-04-02 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
"Tit for tat's a position of weakness, whereas mercy's a quality of strength."

This is very much like Lao Tzu's definition of the greatest good---supple, flexible, soft.

Date: 2012-04-03 07:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] showingup.livejournal.com
Gandhi: "Violence is the weapon of the weak; non-violence the weapon of the strong."

Date: 2012-04-03 01:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeneralist.livejournal.com
Reminds me of a talk with someone who was happy about a new relationship. She had found someone pretty special, and was telling me how happy she was. She asked, half-dreamily, "What did I ever do to deserve this?"

And I answered, "Nothing. You don't deserve it."

After she sputtered some, I explained. "You don't deserve it. If you only get what you deserve, that's not love. That's work. That's a job. That's tit for tat. That's how the rest of the world works. But what you're telling me? This isn't about an emotional paycheck. It's love -- and that's undeserved."

Date: 2012-04-03 11:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeneralist.livejournal.com
It was better than having her make my mistakes over again. I was in one of those, "OMG, what did I ever do to deserve something this good" relationships once (still am!). Silly me, I thought that the correct response was to make myself better and better to the point that I did "deserve" it.

Wanting to bring the best of you to a relationship, and making yourself better so that there's more "best", isn't a problem. That's actually kinda healthy.

But thinking "I'm not good enough for this" and "I'd better shape up NOW otherwise this will end and I'll never have anything this good again" kills a relationship FAST. If my partner ever said "you're not good enough for me, and if you want to keep me you need to shape up" I hope I'd have the sense to run away from an emotionally abusive relationship. Thinking it about oneself isn't any healthier.

Eventually, I got to "I don't deserve this -- neither does my partner -- and we both need to support each other and support ourselves and support the partnership to keep this marvelous, wondrous thing going."

Date: 2012-04-03 11:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
People deserve love just because they are human, and no one has to be perfect to be loved. That's just not necessary, thank goodness!

The way you relate to others is important, though. And that's something you gradually learn over time from all the people around you. It takes time and thought and experience to figure out what bringing the best to a relationship looks like and what it means for you.

I learned it from Michael, and to a lesser extent, from my friends. Before that I really didn't know how to do it. I certainly didn't learn it at home.

There's no way to learn how to give and receive the best in yourself (and others) without actually watching others close up and trying it yourself. OK, reading and observing help a lot. But there's no substitute for practice, in my experience.

Nothing really worked for me like trial and error coupled with someone who could model it close up.

Date: 2012-04-03 11:32 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-04-03 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eoma-p.livejournal.com
Struggling with this. At some level, that quote is about trust, and I'm just as hardass as the businessman being rejected here. I will give you 110% as long as I can trust you. If you break my trust by doing something intentionally damaging, our relationship is OVER. That's not a "tit-for-tat', "I'll do just the minimum" standard; that's an "I don't take shit" standard. What am I missing?

Date: 2012-04-03 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
Honey, I am in no position to tell you anything about what you should do, so I won't try.

I only know about myself.

I, too, have problems trusting, but this is the thing: I don't believe that people screw up because they are bad or something is wrong with them or any of that stuff. Nobody gets everything right without blowing it a few times. Blowing it here and there, even in *really* hurtful ways, does *not* make you bad. It's not even a good reason to withhold trust in the future, in my opinion.

It's a good reason to be careful, cautious and slow. It's a good reason to make sure that there are lots of conversations in which all people speak and each side is heard---it's really important that everyone understand what happened, why, and have a chance to think about addressing some of the things that went pear-shaped. It's a good reason to take your time and be slow in extending your heart of hearts.

But it's not a good reason to judge others harshly forever, or think they are awful, or never try to extend trust to them again.

When was the last time you made your way through ANY relationship without screwing up? If it was an important, long-standing relationship, you most likely screwed up badly. AT LEAST once...

I know I have in every relationship that's ever been important to me. So how can I judge others, when I have made such mistakes myself? How can I withhold trust, when I myself have sometimes breached it?

I mean, Peggy, who is perfect? Nobody.

The only relationships in which people don't cause each other pain are super-short ones and superficial ones. And those are just boring.

In all others---in any relationship worth having---the people involved will cause each other pain and everyone will screw up sometimes.

So, I guess I can't go for the hard-ass approach. I can go for the "be very, very, VERY careful and communicate and LISTEN A LOT before you try again" approach, but I just can't see blown trust as a reason never to extend it again.

Peggy, if I haven't yet screwed up with you yet, just wait. There's plenty of time before we die (I hope). We will get there. And when we do, I hope you will be careful, cautious, communicative and slow...but still choose to explain your position, help me understand why, and eventually, extend trust to me again.

So I guess I am arguing for the weirdo position of, "no, you can't trust most people because they don't yet have self-mastery, but that shouldn't stop you from caring deeply about them and slowly extending your trust again anyway."

Date: 2012-04-03 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
OK, I will say that my position has a lot to with resilience. I think it's important to cultivate resilience and to depend more on it than on self-shielding and self-protectiveness.

I will grant you that this is probably because I can't shield myself very well at all and I don't think that will ever change, so resilience is my only option.

You may have a very different perspective if you're good at actually brushing pain off and/or have a thick skin.

I can't and I don't, so I will stick with resilience.

Date: 2012-04-03 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eoma-p.livejournal.com
There is no question that I'm not perfect and I screw up regularly. I like to think that what makes a difference is that when I screw up, I say, "I screwed up. This was really bad, and I'm sorry. How can I do better?" Then I try my best to NOT screw up the same way again. (No promises that I won't discover some completely new way to screw up.) I like to think that intention makes a difference.

What I'm not willing to allow in my life are people who aren't concerned about how their actions affect me. I am in fact quite sensitive and not at all good at brushing off pain. When someone inflicts pain or damages my reputation and sees no issue with that, I extricate myself from that relationship.

I've been in work situations where a "team leader" was more interested in how to shift blame than in how to get the job done. That's the kind of behavior that destroys my trust, and it takes a lot to regain my trust after something like that.

Date: 2012-04-04 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
Oh, I see. That kind of thing is really hard. I've encountered people stuck in that place and it's a real challenge to deal with. I still don't think they're bad. I think they're trapped in immaturity, somehow stuck.

I totally get how this is traumatic. I don't have a lot of wisdom here. I have stubbornness. If you harden your heart, they've won, and I am totally opposed to allowing their dysfunctions to win. No mean people get to win with me. I want to come out intact.

Date: 2012-04-04 08:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] showingup.livejournal.com
This sounds to me like another way of talking about detaching from the baggage around someone else's bad behaviour in order to see it clearly and in proportion. That then allows you to sit with the question of how to deal with their bad behaviour, and to trust your deepest self.

Not the same as letting someone damage your healthy boundaries.

Not always easy to do when we're taught to do the opposite. Still, with practice and support, it appears to get easier.

Date: 2012-04-16 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinamari.livejournal.com
Practice, practice, practice...

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