Why should Pagans care about money?

[sabrinamari]

This is a big question. As (Neo-) Pagans, our spiritual focus tends to center on personal growth, the responsible stewardship of our world, and respect for the sacredness of every being, object and element. We worship the Divine in many forms and see our bodies and their functions as holy and beautiful creations. We strive towards a world in which the material bodies of all life forms are given respect.

To be concerned about money seems so greedy, so base, and so without spiritual merit. It's almost embarrassing. Many of us feel as though it's somehow dirty, and that caring about it means overlooking what's really important in life.

Why *should* Pagans care about money?

There are many good answers. You probably have a few to offer.

I do, too.


* Careful stewardship of money translates into freedom: the freedom to make choices that enhance your spiritual life (like the pursuit of right livelihood), the freedom to care for your beloveds and children and freedom from financial stress (like relationship-killing fights over unpaid bills).

* Careful stewardship of money allows you to stand on your own two feet so that no one else need struggle to take care of you. It also lets you take care of others when appropriate, offering help to those who cannot help themselves.

* Careful stewardship of money allows you to escape the slavery of debt. It means that no person, company or institution has the right to compel you in any particular direction. It also frees you from resentment and shame: when you borrow money from others, you may find yourself trapped with well-meaning friends in a cycle of frustration, resentment and pain.

* Careful stewardship of money teaches you how to be powerful; it instructs you in maintaining control over your own destiny. It teaches you how to be wise, defering immediate gratification for future benefits a hundred times greater.



What about your reasons? Why should Pagans care about money?

Comments

[castalusoria.livejournal.com]

I care about money because (being something of a hedonist), I like to live comfortably. Planning and saving has enabled me (from the capitalist/consumerist end) to buy things that have made my life easier and/or more convenient. Paying attention to money is helping me plan ahead for my future, with a goal of being able to continue to live comfortably, and to have the freedom (like you've mentioned above) to pursue additional goals without as much struggling.

I am blessed to have a good job, which I enjoy, which (by coincidence) is also pretty secure, and draws a salary that enables me to live comfortably. Indeed, I am also able to make charitable contributions with some of that money, and to help do things here and there to be supportive of friends or acquaintances who may not live as comfortably.

While sometimes I buy things that are frivolous, or not needed, I do try to avoid being wasteful.

Being organized about money lessens my stress about short-notice expenses, emergencies, and overdrafts.

I think "caring" about money includes a lot of aspects of financial responsibility, even if one makes an effort to decrease the value one puts on consumerist/capitalist "must own STUFF!" habits. (I'm trying to consciously alter my materialistic ways towards more mindful purchasing, and decrease the amount of stuff I own that isn't regularly being used, or doesn't bring me joy.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Thank you, wise friend.

[castalusoria.livejournal.com]

I learned so much about money-planning from my Dad. I resisted the "lessons" as a younger person (high school and early college), in that I understood what he was getting across, I just didn't want to follow his advice. He was, 99.8% of the time, right. Every once in a while I surprise him. I'm paid up on my Roth IRA for 2008. I rolled my first Roth IRA into my new one at work's Credit Union. Back when I bought the first Prius, I'd done the homework and did out a whole cost-benefit comparison for him-- before telling him I was going to buy the car and give up my sturdy Corolla. :) He and I were talking recently by email, and I thanked him for his years of sage advice, and how it had made me a prepared investor, and an organized, and generally fiscally-responsible person. He didn't say much beyond, 'Ah, it was nothing, that's my job, bein' yer Dad' comments, but I think I could hear him preening.

Maybe it's a Virgo-organizing thing? Virgo = earth sign, money-organizing = governed by earth influences? I like programs like Quicken not so much for balancing accounts-- but for the actuarial functions like seeing where the money goes, by categorizing transactions. Go figure. I guess I really am a money-geek. ;) (Dad's a Capricorn-- does that factor in, on his side?)

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

You are fortunate, and I am happy for you, that you had such a wise and caring steward for a father. I do think his Capricorn sun sign was part this, as the influence of Virgo in your life.

[glenmarshall.livejournal.com]

My spiritual values strongly include personal responsibility and accountability. I feel obligated to take responsibility for my own well being and own all the credit or blame for the results.

Money is part of how I live. I use it as a tool to be responsible -- as a one of several resources that I can draw on. I am accountable for how much money I have and how I choose to spend it.

Money is a means for me to invest in people's well-being, helping them to be come responsible and accountable. Therefore, my two largest charitable donations go to local food banks and to education. I do not donate to causes which seek to blame people or institutions or otherwise spread negative messages.

The only debt I have is from situations where the interest rate of the debt is less than I can earn from investments. I choose when to be in debt, and I choose when not to be.

Money is not my problem; it is simply one of my tools.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Thank you, my dear. I regularly learn from your example.

[siobhra.livejournal.com]

I care about money because that is what 'responsible' people do. The more help you need from society the more you are taking from those who can't do for themselves.

The world has just so much that it can do for the needy. There is only so much in the coffers available to help others. More money spent on a homeless mother means less money to spend on student aid. If you remove yourself from the welfare rolls there is more for others. If you remove yourself even farther from the welfare rolls than that then you can pay into the system to help others.

Also:

This is a corporate/capitalist world. That is the nature of things right now. Cry all you want about how evil it is but in the end it still is. We preach about 'working with nature' and 'being in balance with nature'. Then why do we buck the 'natural business world'? If we become part of the capitalist system we can work from within to make it more responsible. No one listens to the dirty, screaming protester. They listen to the clean well dressed person.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Moving in harmony with the Tao of the capitalist world: wow.

[spiffnolee.livejournal.com]

Our gods are immanent.

That's not just theology, it's ontology. As pagans, our practices are about manifesting our will (as we understand it, which we do better when we're in closer communion with the divine) here on Earth. Lighting a green candle may help align certain energies, but six months' salary in the bank is manifestation.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Yes! And that six months salary represents the manifestation of a balanced and intimate relationship with Element Money.

Why I care about money

[elphaba-of-oz.livejournal.com]

Scuba diving is expensive.

(So are organic produce and free range chickens for the men in my life.)

Re: Why I care about money

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Laughing---yes, paying for what brings us joy and good health is a necessity!

Why to care.

[warning-dca.livejournal.com]

Money is representative of barter - it's goods for services simplified to goods for cash - so the recipient can spend that cash to get goods or services themselves.

To fairly take and fairly give - barter - i help you, you help me - Money does that, it's what we use to allow for that to happen with greater ease across the board.

Money, hard cash, is symbolic in nature - it shows how much you've done in the world - how many people you have benefited and how they have paid you back.

Conversely it could show how many people you have enslaved, abused, swindled, or ignored. But that depends on you, not the money.

Money isn't alive on it's own... people are the power behind the dollar. We are the movers and shakers, the creators and destroyers of it's power. All people have to do is say "i don't recognize that as fair tender\good trade for my product or service" and it loses value. It has no innate value to itself. We give it that.

Money is ultimately useless unless it's spread around helping small things grow. Sometimes that growth is personal, - by using money to educate myself i can provide greater service in the world, by making more money with my services I can do even better deeds for both my family , friends, and the world.

People look at money, especially Pagans\Wiccans as if it is the source of "evil" in the world. If you look at money as a symbol, and a tool - you immediately see how people can sit on either side of this coin, and be neither entirely right or entirely wrong in their view. It is not money itself that is bad, or has power - but rather the use that the people wielding it hold.

It is not should we care about money, but rather HOW we should care for it. Money should not be shunned because it has a dark aspect, or the potential for seemingly "dark" purposes - We don't shun Fire because it can burn down a home, - we treat it with respect. We see it for it's good and it's bad points - stare at them with eyes wide open, and then we monitor our own actions and act as a responsible person aught - with proper care and consideration for the fact that it is a tool that can either hurt or help be accountable for how we use it to each and every end.

Re: Why to care.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

You have said many insightful things here, but I love this the best:

"It is not should we care about money, but rather HOW we should care for it."

Thank you.

Re: Why to care.

[warning-dca.livejournal.com]

Absolutely :-)

Re: Why to care.

[methastra.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your post! It had the piece of wisdom I've been missing in my current (and ongoing) struggle for dealing appropriately with others, and it was in the Rede all along.

"Fairly Take, Fairly Give".

Duh.

I've always seen that line as meaning "don't take too much, don't give too little". However, I hadn't looked at it from the flip side: "don't give too much, don't take too little".

Fairness works both ways, and I've been shortchanging myself by not enforcing fairness on the flip side.

Thanks for the kick to the head!

Re: Why to care.

[warning-dca.livejournal.com]

My pleasure, glad to help you out!

[skyefyr.livejournal.com]

I care about money because it will eventually give me the freedom to follow my dream and live off / as close to the land as possible.

Money means I have the ability to take classes and gain knowledge I need to live my life this way.

Money means I can afford to buy a plot of land and build the simple house I want with the awesome kitchen that any good chef would be proud of.

Money means I can buy "treats" so I can enjoy making exotic dishes for me and my family.

It also means that when I see something I'd like to get for someone I can, without worrying about "breaking the budget for the week". I like buying things for the people I love and making them smile and feel special and thought about.

I hate that half my paycheck goes to credit card bills and can't wait till the day that isn't the case any longer. I understand car payments will probably always be there to some degree, but my current goal is to get rid of the credit card payments and all the interest. I'm tired of giving my money away in interest payments.

I'm also tired of living paycheck to paycheck and want some financial security!

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

I love that you are so passionately re-imagining your life so that It can become the joyful expression of who you really are. You inspire me to want to support you in reaching these new goals that can offer so much to your family.

Skyefyr inspired another note from me..

[warning-dca.livejournal.com]

Money does not grant freedom, Money is a -product- of freedom.

It is the payment you receive for the product of your Life and your Liberty - and the worth of those things is set by you and haggled with by the would be consumer\client.

Those people who are not allowed to set value or worth to what they do, produce, or offer are called slaves. Those who are not payed the value that they set or agree on for their service or product have been stolen from or swindled.

Cash is just one more way that we ensure everyone gets what they think is a fair deal\trade. It exists so that no one may be enslaved or cheated and so that each individual can set in "universal" terms the value of their life and liberty.

Hades

[shades-of-nyx.livejournal.com]

It's easy to care about money, and not at all contradictory to "Pagan Values" when one's patron has the epithet "God of all Wealth"!

Money enables us to live comfortably, and make wise choices.

I have no issue with financial planning.

I do have some sadness that I can't currently afford to be as secure as I'd like. I'm not saving as much as I'd ideally be as Real Life (TM) keeps throwing me emergency after emergency.

Re: Hades

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

That's OK---there is an ebb and flow to all things, a natural harmony of in out. I think this applies to ocean waves, busy schedules and emergency funds alike.

The tide is out, but with good practices based on wise decisions, it shall flow in again.

Hugging you!

[eoma-p.livejournal.com]

I'm not a pagan, but a lot of this resonates. Many Christians I've known talk about the "evils" of money. Many also use the word stewardship to describe their relationship with money. The Bible verses I'm used to hearing are

For the love of money is the root of all evil. (I Timothy 6:10)

and

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. (Luke 6:38)

I don't mean to be a Bible thumper, but I'm always glad when our views and ideas overlap.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Please add your insights and useful Bible quotes whenever you like. I have found many useful lessons in Bible verses. Good sense and integrity are not the exclusive property of any religion: you can find it everywhere. I welcome it wherever I find it.

Interestingly, two of the financial gurus I most enjoy right now are evangelical Christians: Dave Ramsey and the man who runs the No Credit Needed podcast (free on iTunes). They each see the good sense and advice they offer as part and parcel of their ministry.

I love this! Their spiritual work is to help other people become the wisest and happiest versions of themselves possible. What could be better for a leader in any spiritual tradition? Plus, each man gives advice full of integrity, and I have heard Dave (at least) ask his listeners to go to the guidelines offered by their own spiritual traditions and review them when they are confronted with a challenging money-and-integrity problem. I love that---it's so respectful!

In truth, I feel an affinity with religious people *of all traditions* who see themselves as educators, ministers (in all senses of that word) and personal development coaches. Whatever their particular path, the way they anchor their ministry in compassionate spirituality appeals to me. It feels *right*.

I can't imagine separating personal development from spiritual growth, whatever that means for a person. And I include in this category atheists and agnostics committed to the care and feeding of a wise and loving humanity. Spirituality doesn't just mean belief in a Higher Power; it means a respect for and commitment to the Sacred in all things.

[tracyandrook.livejournal.com]

Only thanks much for including your perspective, yay

[tracyandrook.livejournal.com]

Money enables me to experiment. It's really hard to play when one is stressed out over money. New discoveries and cool combinations come about when one is feeling free enough to have some leisure.

I arranged my career so that I feel I really do have right livelihood. With money I can access some trainings in that. I'm considering it.

My dad showed me that money is freedom of choice. He would much rather support the non-profit of his choosing than let the government pick it for him (i.e. via taxes).

[flamespirit.livejournal.com]

Sabrina, I am honored to know you, my wise friend! You speak and write so eloquently and I love how you tie in supposed mundania with spirituality and specifically with wicca.

Many have already covered my reasons for caring about money...freedom being the essential one. I have a long rambling post forming in my mind though :-). I'll let you know if it finds its way out.