Craft Post 6: "Conservative" and "Orthodox"

[sabrinamari]

In this Craft discussion, I think I am using words in ways that only gesture at the meanings I intend.

"Conservative" and "orthodox" as descriptors for some of my colleagues are just not right. "Liberal" isn't the right label I'd select for myself in this context, either.

Let me try again, with more focus.

What I mean is this: I love this tradition and I want it to flourish and grow. I am, in a sense, married to it and to my Blue Star tribe, but first and foremost, I am an agent of transformation and change.

Therefore, this tradition is one of the most important channels through which I do my work---the ministry I offer to this world. I facilitate transformation in those who enter my vision, and I do it not as an authority figure or director, but as a midwife to their own needs, desires and processes.

My highest calling is not to this tradition, although I love it intensely and will keep it healthy and whole to the best of my ability.

It is to the highest flowering, the most powerful, beautiful forms of the people and organizations who come into my purview that I am ultimately most loyal.

Thus, this tradition is ultimately a tool for my greatest work. It is a profound tool, a precious tool---but still, it is a means to an end for me.

And this does not appear to be true for many of the Initiates around me, or at least, I don't think it does. Many of them are Keepers of the Tradition in all of its glory, in its rich, symbolic detail, in the tremendously complex kaleidoscope of its paradigm. It is to them I bow when I need to know details of this breathtakingly beautiful form. Without form, spirit cannot flow, and no transformation is possible.

Yet for me, form is always malleable, and must be so, if I am to achieve my broadest purpose.

But without the Keepers of Form and Tradition, I am sunk.

I am a luxury grown by a slowly maturing Tradition that now has room for me, but I am *not* the first-line or second-line guard that generated and now preserves its detail.

Comments

[wgseligman.livejournal.com]

You may find it helpful to distinguish between "orthodox" and "orthoprax" (I'm paraphrasing Deborah Lipp). "Orthodox" means to conform to a belief; "orthoprax" means to conform to a practice.

For example, Christianity is a religion that's defined by belief: Do you believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior? In contrast, Judaism is defined by practice: Do you keep kosher, observe the Sabbath, wear a yarmulke?

Gardnerian Wicca is definitely an orthoprax religion; you can think whatever you want as long as you do what the Tradition requires. Given these definitions (if you accept them), how would you define Blue Star?

[akrissy.livejournal.com]

thank you for bringing this up. (now please pardon my awkward writing skills as I try to express myself.)
A recent lecture by a (young) doctorate sociologist discussed studying and noting that many of the earth religions are distinguished from Christian religions on this aspect. Orthopraxy. Not said to bash anyone, I know plenty of Christians that are also more about the Doing that the Saying.

Orthopraxy is where my own path lies and I would not be able to connect with a tradition that did not have this as an aspect. It is what has drawn me to particular people within B* that Do and not just talk about doing.

[wgseligman.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I should clarify:

The difference between orthodoxy and orthopraxy is not the difference between "just saying" and "doing things."

In the context of the Craft, orthodoxy would mean saying something like, "To be Wiccan, you must believe in the Goddess Aradia as described in 'The Gospel of the Witches.'" Orthopraxy would imply, "To be Wiccan, you must stand in a circle skyclad, repeat 'Blessed Be' when someone else says it, consecrate the cakes and wine. What you believe as you do this is up to you."

These are opposite ends of a spectrum, not a dualism. To what extent either end of the spectrum overlaps the concepts of personal growth that Sabrina describes is matter of healthy debate.

[onyxtwilight.livejournal.com]

Definitely orthopraxic. Just not as orthopraxic as y'all often seem to describe yourselves. :-)

There's lots of variation and wiggle room and regional differences and line differences and alternate preferences in Blue Star. We used to argue about it a lot, until we finally settled into referring to the differences as "regional variation" instead of "you're doin' it wrong." Conversations are much more productive these days. :-)

Mind you, we still have a few much-more-conservative-than-most-of-us enclaves who very much wish we were all far MORE orthopraxic than we are. The trouble is, what got taught as the trad spread and grew wasn't always the same, so whenever someone gets super-orthopraxic about the practice as it was handed to them, they run into someone else who feels just as strongly about the way THEY were taught to do it, which might be quite different.

But in general, yes, orthopraxic. It's just that "our way" is a very loose-fitting garment.

For myself, I've come to prefer Maggie's "traditional/experimental" nomenclature. I very much like doing both. I'm just one of the people who feel the need to make sure that the next generation of students doesn't lose sight of what's actually traditional, and that they understand it thoroughly. Because otherwise, how will they ever experiment in interesting, meaningful ways? >:-)

[tangent-that-got-a-little-long]
Conservative/liberal often leads into territory we don't intend. I'm very conservative about how praxis gets taught, but not very attached to the gender essentialist section of the conservative pool, for example. A little attached -- I think gender is important, and useful, and you can't understand the power dynamics of trad Craft without a deep understanding of the gender roles and how they developed and how they interact and support each other. You can't ignore them, or pretend they're not important, because they're *vital*. I just don't think of them as firm, inflexible boundaries. I can do the priestess's job. It's not the SAME when I do it, and I believe there are levels on which I don't touch it at all, so the job is perhaps less complete when I do it. But nothing's going to *explode* if I do it, either, and in twenty-odd years, I've not once seen any sign of The Curse of the Goddess. No one will ever convince me She gives a rat's ass; She's certainly had many opportunities to tell me so, and has never once bothered.
[/tangent-that-got-a-little-long]

But oooo, ignore the finer details of the ritual like they don't matter, and my eyebrow starts to reach for the moon. Hope you were paying attention when we talked about how to ward against the evil eye, 'cause it's pop-quiz-time! >;-)

[sleepymaggie.livejournal.com]

"I can do the priestess's job. It's not the SAME when I do it, and I believe there are levels on which I don't touch it at all, so the job is perhaps less complete when I do it."

From a certain perspective (gender, gendered brain, gendered thinking) i would have to say the same thing: there are levels of priestessing that i will never touch. Any priestessing that is meant to focus on me-as-a-woman is never going to be fulfilled by me, regardless of any built-in physical equipment that people choose to focus on.

Priestessing as a job type...as a set of skills in the ritual...as a role in the movement of energy, that is something i can do. That is a type of priestessing that i will accept top to bottom.

In between...

[shades-of-nyx.livejournal.com]

And this is one of those cases where I stand with Mgg, and not onyxtwilight. Or, more accurately, I stand smack in the middle, in between them. Recently, I've discovered some things that feel distinctly gendered. My logical mind goes "Error 404 File not Found" when this happens, as I don't believe in biological predestination whatsoever. Gah! Love you both!

[evaelisabeth.livejournal.com]

Orthodoxy isn't as useful a term in our context and in some ways neither is Orthopraxy in its strictest sense. Blue Star is made up of a rainbow of different covens which often were passed slightly different practices, it's a bit more like Feri in this sense than Gard as I understand it.

What I always remark on is how even though regional variations may exists when we come together in what we call our Family Gatherings or Initiate Gatherings we step into circle and there is that current that is uniquely Blue Star and I'm comfortable and feel safe in the company of my peers if you get what I mean.

The internal beliefs of various Blue Star people can vary widely though I think in general we tend more to the polytheist end of the spectrum than anything else. One of the Hallmarks of the tradition is a very highly developed system of Deity Invocation and it's hard not to start floating towards the poly point of view when you are literally face to face with your Gods on a regular basis, but perhaps that's my personal bias showing.

[badseed1980.livejournal.com]

See, I don't think of "conservative" in this context the way I think of it in politics. I think of myself as CONSERVING the roots of the tradition as best I can. Keeping the tradition. Preserving it. As a result, I don't think of the opposite end of that spectrum as "liberal." Hell, I'm a liberal person. I would be more likely to use words like "experimental" or "eclectic" for someone like you, in the context of the tradition.

It sounds to me like you see your calling *within the craft* as helping people to find themselves through working with the gods. I see my own as helping people find the gods (and along the way, they may find themselves).

[sleepymaggie.livejournal.com]

I've been following this series of posts with great interest, but I haven't yet had a chance to respond.

This one, though, I have to respond now, I can't even wait.

I agree with everything you said above. I usually use the terms "traditional" and "experimental" when referring to the two streams that you mention ("conservative" and "liberal" respectively).

I am at the far end of the experimental part of our tradition. I see my role as holding/providing space for work that wanders away from the traditional path. Play, change, alteration, experimentation, dynamic interaction with the traditional -- these are all forces that I serve.

I am always aware that I owe a debt to those who keep the very, very traditional alive. There can't be an experimental without a traditional. It's a polarity or a spectrum -- one needs the other to survive and vice versa. And most people find themselves somewhere along the spectrum between the two. I just happen to be at the opposite extreme from traditional. We all work hand-in-hand.

Thank you very much for sharing these thoughts. They are helping me to solidify pieces of thought about my own ministry. These are things that I've always known, but it helps to see others use the words too. Thanks.